Emmy Rossum & ‘Furious’ Creator Liz Meriwether On Interviewing Real Trafficking Survivors, Updating A 1987 Thriller & Season 2 “Croatian Beach” Dreams

As Furious viewers get closure on one character’s search for justice, series creator Liz Meriwether and star Emmy Rossum have some ideas for Season 2.

Inspired by the 1987 thriller Black Widow, Rossum told Deadline about a “great scuba sequence” from the film that she wanted to recreate when her character FBI Agent Alice Black finally meets Lola Petticrew’s deadly Catherine Grace in the Hulu series, Season 1 of which is now streaming.

“In the movie, there’s this great scuba sequence when they become friends in the back half of the movie, and they’re underwater scubaing, and it’s tense, and you’re like, ‘Are they going to kill each other? Are they going to kiss? Like, what’s the vibe?’” explained Rossum. “And I kept being like, ‘Well, Liz, we got to keep money in the budget for Croatia beaches.’ And Liz is like, ‘I don’t think we’re going to Croatia beaches.’ And I was like, ‘Fuck! But those Croatian tax incentives for that beach scene.’”

As Meriwether noted of the scene in which their characters finally meet, “And then we ended up in a New York City sex work shelter in the winter, and so that was it.”

While the closest they got in Season 1 was a finale kiss scene between Alice and Danny (Scoot McNairy) on a frigid New York beach in the finale, perhaps the recent Season 2 renewal will allow them to throw on some flippers and channel that moment between Debra Winger and Theresa Russell from the Bob Rafelson-helmed film.

“Who knows? Fingers crossed,” said Rossum. “Liz, give me that Croatian beach.”

Stunning European settings aside, Meriwether noted that the “North Star of the show is really talking about these two women and their experiences” as two very different survivors of abuse.

“I think that often gets lost in the narrative of some of these predators,” she explained. “It’s not the story of the predator, it’s the story of the women who have to live with what was done. And in terms of the justice system, I’m not a lawyer. I’ve been asked this question a lot, and I don’t have the answers in terms of what needs to change, but I hope that the show starts conversations and asks questions.”

Meriwether revealed “a huge part of the show” was speaking to female FBI agents and women in law enforcement “who understand that it’s a flawed system, but are still trying to work within it because it’s the only system we have. So, hopefully the show doesn’t provide easy answers, or I hope it shows the complexity of it.”

Rossum agreed that it was “very important for us to really show women in all of their complexity,” citing Alice’s duality as a survivor of abuse who also enjoys BDSM. In creating that complexity, she also spoke with survivors of violence and trafficking, as well as psychologists.

“It’s these kinds of contradictions that don’t immediately make sense and that don’t add up to a perfect victim, in the way that our justice system likes them to be, in order to be quote unquote ‘deserving of justice,’ or in order for their story to make sense,” she said. “Trauma doesn’t make sense. Violence doesn’t make sense. The aftereffects that it leaves in you don’t make sense. And I think it was with bravery that we all marched towards the fires that Liz set.”

Read on about the Season 1 of Hulu’s Furious, now available to stream, and where Season 2 might go.

DEADLINE: Tell me about depicting these two very different women who are both survivors of abuse. 

LIZ MERIWETHER: I mean, it was important to, I think both of us, that the story really was about these two women and not the people that had done various things to them, and to really just focus on the long-term and the short-term effects of being a victim of violence or survivor of trafficking violence and to ultimately show the two of them connecting and finding each other in a strange way, not necessarily heartwarming, but to really be seen for the first time by another person. I think that was always what I loved and, I know Emmy loved about the movie, and I think that was like a North Star for us making the show. 

EMMY ROSSUM: Yeah, and it’s incredible to have the gift of Liz’s words, and it’s harder for me to say this in front of her because she doesn’t like to hear positive things about her. She’s probably vomiting right now in her mouth. But it goes without saying that there is no portraying of a character without the words that start on the page, and Liz is so incredibly unflinching with how she dives into things, and the risks that she takes, and that she lets the characters take—even from that first episode where you see Alice swiping to have that guy come over and she’s asking for physical violence when you know she’s been a victim of violence. It’s these kinds of contradictions that don’t immediately make sense and that don’t add up to a perfect victim, in the way that our justice system likes them to be, in order to be quote unquote “deserving of justice,” or in order for their story to make sense. Trauma doesn’t make sense. Violence doesn’t make sense. The aftereffects that it leaves in you don’t make sense. And I think it was with bravery that we all marched towards the fires that Liz set. And those fires were ones that we had learned from real victims of trafficking, from psychologists, from real victims of violence, both that we know personally and also that we interviewed. And it was very important for us to really show women in all of their complexity. And I found it most moving and challenging that neither of these women were really trying to get justice for themselves, right? You see that Alice is really focused on getting justice for others, doesn’t think a path to justice for herself is possible, or maybe even that she deserves it, and because of the complexity of her trauma. And Catherine is really after the truth about what happened to her friend who died, and taking everyone down along the way. And so, I think that there are so many similarities, although they’re going about it in very, very different ways, and Liz just wrote such incredible material for us to be able to really dig in, unzip ourselves, and really investigate all the shadow parts of ourselves and bring those to the characters. 

MERIWETHER: Also, for Emmy to take this character on with such clear eyes and bravery, that’s infectious on set. I feel like for me as a writer, for everybody around her, she just threw herself into this, and It got me going. It allowed me to really write and kind of go for it in a way that I think I would have been scared to if I hadn’t had her incredible performance to fall back on and get me excited. 

DEADLINE: And I know the show was inspired by the 1987 movie Black Widow, but there are some pretty obvious current parallels with Epstein, and just in general, the way the justice system protects abusers. What was it like approaching that part of it through this modern lens? 

MERIWETHER: I did a show about Elizabeth Holmes that was like the story of Elizabeth Holmes, and this is not true crime. It’s a psychological study of these two—that doesn’t sound very fun. It’s an in-depth kind of exploration of these two women, and there are a lot of parallels. You can choose your own adventure in terms of which parallel you want to see, but I think the point of the show, or like I said, the North Star of the show is really talking about these two women and their experiences, because I think that often gets lost in the narrative of some of these predators. It’s not the story of the predator, it’s the story of the women who have to live with what was done. And in terms of the justice system, I’m not a lawyer. I’ve been asked this question a lot, and I don’t have the answers in terms of what needs to change, but I hope that the show starts conversations and asks questions. I will say that a huge part of the show and the research for the show was speaking to women who are current or former FBI agents, people in law enforcement who understand that it’s a flawed system, but are still trying to work within it because it’s the only system we have. So, hopefully the show doesn’t provide easy answers, or I hope it shows the complexity of it.

DEADLINE: Absolutely. I’ve seen a lot of people on social media really praising that part of it, how it sheds a light on the way, police like protect their own and things like that. I feel like in the show, there’s so much anticipation to see what will happen when Alice and Catherine finally meet. Tell me about finding that genuine connection between them in that shelter scene and how that evolves throughout the show. 

ROSSUM: I think we’re waiting for the whole show, there’s like this invisible thread that’s kind of connecting them, but we’re waiting to see how Alice will find her way to Catherine. I think Alice spends a phenomenal amount of time burying her secrets and energy doing that, and kind of bifurcating that, and that’s become her standard. So, when she’s actually in this shelter with other women who are more like her than not like her, and connecting with Catherine, I think the story that she tells her about being beaten and having the shampoo not washed out of her hair, I think that is a true story. I don’t think that’s a story she’s ever said out loud, but I think that is true, and she’s only able to tell that out loud undercover, under the guise of being Alex, who she writes her name is on the sheet. Because I think she’s using the truth to make the trick work, and that’s what I think she’s actually so good at, navigating her way into versions of herself and forming these landlines to other people. She’s seemingly, as a lot of traumatized people are, very hyper vigilant and very attuned to what somebody needs and what will work for them, and it’s a survival skill, and it’s also made her uniquely able to connect to almost anyone, because she can slightly shift herself to find the parts of herself or imagine her way into parts that will be satisfying to that person. And that gets her goal and ultimately probably is a tool she used to keep her safe before this was her job. 

MERIWETHER: Yeah, I think that’s such a wonderful way of putting it, but she’s most comfortable lying, so I think it sort of worked that she’s meeting Catherine finally while she’s lying, because they’re both putting on a performance, and it kind of allows them to be the most honest, which is cool. This is just a funny thing, but in the movie, they meet on this beautiful beach, and for a long time, Emmy and I were like, “We’re going to go to Spain.”

ROSSUM: I was like, “I got to get that scuba sequence.” In the movie, there’s this great scuba sequence when they become friends in the back half of the movie, and they’re underwater scubaing, and it’s tense, and you’re like, “Are they going to kill each other? Are they going to kiss? Like, what’s the vibe?” And I kept being like, “Well, Liz, we got to keep money in the budget for Croatia beaches.” And Liz is like, “I don’t think we’re going to Croatia beaches.” And I was like, “Fuck! But those Croatian tax incentives for that beach scene.”

MERIWETHER: And then we ended up in a New York City sex work shelter in the winter, and so that was it. 

ROSSUM: And the showers were actually located in a public high school, and the steam that we were using in the shower kept setting off the high school smoke detector. So, in that massive scene where she’s holding me at gunpoint and I’m on fentanyl, trying to fight my way out, the fucking fire alarm kept being triggered, and the whole school, including us, would have to evacuate in the middle of the scene. So, it was a very challenging day and not exactly a Croatian beach. 

MERIWETHER: It was exactly like a beach. 

DEADLINE: Well, maybe y’all can do the beach in Season 2. 

ROSSUM: Who knows? Fingers crossed. Liz, give me that Croatian beach. 

DEADLINE: I have to say, I just love how good Jake Lacy is at playing a charming asshole. That whole dynamic was interesting to watch, how he’s kind of saving face the whole time, and then we finally see his true colors. 

MERIWETHER: I really feel for him because he’s such a nice guy, and I feel like he’s sort of pigeonholed now. He’s playing a lot of really bad guys. I just want to publicly say that he’s a very nice guy.

ROSSUM: But I also think that you have to have a softness and a tenderness in order to bring humanity to that and have it not be one-note. And that scene in Episode 5 [“Pick a Sticker”], that very long extended scene with us, where I’m kind of setting the trap and reminding him of what we were and kind of luring him back in, in order to whiskey-waterboard him and compromise his sobriety and ultimately take back the upper hand, I think he played that with such—he’s almost scared to believe he could be a bad guy. He’s  actually kind and charming at moments, he’s actually tender at moments, and then he’s a monster. So, you see all the reasons why Liz’s portrayal of domestic violence is so arresting, because it’s so much more complicated than, “this man is bad to her, why won’t she leave?” Which I think is a reductive way that society has penalized women. 

DEADLINE: But on the flip side of that, I do love that we get to see her chemistry with Danny pay off in the end, and I felt that was a very sweet scene where he’s kind of guarding her while she showered. What was it like letting her feel that moment of peace and just letting her guard down? 

MERIWETHER: Yeah, I mean, I felt like we all collectively needed to be in that condo by the beach by the end.

ROSSUM: Liz was like, “That’s the only beach you’re getting!”

MERIWETHER: Yeah, it was a freezing cold New York beach, but yeah, I think it’s interesting for them that they can have that moment, but it’s away from their regular lives. And then, I think it raises the question about what happens when they kind of leave the condo, but I think that letting them have that felt really good, just writing it and then seeing it, hopefully, you as an audience member want them to have that by the time they get to that place. I don’t know if they actually play Parcheesi. I don’t know. Do you think they did afterwards? 

ROSSUM: I don’t know. Maybe round two. Maybe round two was like sexual Parcheesi. They used some dice. I don’t know what they got up to. But I think for me, what was most touching is that, it’s like they’re kind of trying to suspend disbelief in that moment that this tape doesn’t exist, but they can’t ultimately, because the flash drive is there and they know they have to do something about it. And it’s the way in which the ghosts of your past are present, even in interactions and relationships you’ll have in the future. And in fact, even if you have buried the things that have happened to you, perhaps your partner can’t or isn’t built the way you are, or wasn’t quite as traumatized as you were and doesn’t know how to kind of shut that down. And the fact that Alice is trying to separate from that part of herself and not have it be her, but actually just be a witness to it, we see her watching her own victimization in that final episode, and knowing that it is real, that it did happen to her, that it’s out there and 50,000 people at least have downloaded and watched it. And that’s a really hard thing to know. And that’s a really hard thing I imagine for Danny to know about her. And for him as a guy, how can he accept the wholeness of who she is with all of that damage in her past? 

MERIWETHER: It’s interesting. One of the notes I got in post was to cut the scene where they come back in the house, so it was just ending when they kiss on the beach and then we go afterwards. But I think the stuff that Emmy is saying, just showing that it’s not just a kiss on a beach, it has to be the conversation that they have when they get back into the house before they, I’m assuming, have sex. I mean, we don’t see it, but I’m assuming that’s what happened.

ROSSUM: Certainly seems like it. 

MERIWETHER: That conversation before, I think is really important, because that’s that’s kind of some of the stuff that they will continue to deal with. 

ROSSUM: Yeah, and Nora [Quincy Tyler Bernstine] says to Alice, “You have to face it. You want to do this job, you’ve got to look at it.” And Danny’s like, “I don’t want to keep looking.” So, they’re clearly going in very different directions in terms of their ability to metabolize this kind of content, even personally. 

DEADLINE: Well, on that note, are there plans for Season 2? I’m also curious what Alice might do with the downloader history, and also how she’s gonna process killing Jay Easton, which I’m sure was very cathartic, but might have other future mental impacts. 

MERIWETHER: Actually, we wanna skip right ahead to Season 3, so we’re going to do Season 2 in an email. 

ROSSUM: It’s a viral post… We would would be excited to do [Season 2]. We would be very excited to do more. 

DEADLINE: Well, Liz, what has it been like working with Jon M. Chu on The Woman in Me to tell Britney Spears’ story.

MERIWETHER: Oh, I can’t talk about it really, because it’s so early in the process, but it’s been a dream job. I’m so excited about it, and it’s very different than this show. That’s been a nice kind of change.

DEADLINE: I’ll bet.

ROSSUM: There’s nothing she can’t do. I’m already lining up my blonde wig. I’ve cast myself. A little old, little old, but… I was doing my [vocalizes like Spears] at a press junket, just casually floating my audition.