Anika Wells in trainwreck interview as she explains expenses scandal taught her the difference between failing the ‘pub test’ and breaking the rules… until host points out she broke the rules too
Communications Minister Anika Wells has faced backlash after a disastrous interview saw her called out for trying to downplay her travel scandal.
Wells appeared on The Daily Aus podcast with editor Billi FitzSimmons on Thursday and discussed the money she had to repay for wrongly claimed expenses.
The Labor frontbencher in May was ordered to pay the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority $10,116.11 after an audit found she’d wrongly used taxpayer funds on travel.
That figure included $8,093 for ‘elements’ of inappropriate travel expenses and a 25 per cent penalty of $2,023.
There were four breaches, one in 2022 and three in 2025, which were mostly related to family expenses, including charging taxpayers for her husband’s return flight to the AFL Grand Final.
FitzSimons, daughter of journalists Lisa Wilkinson and Peter FitzSimons, asked Wells what she’d ‘changed since it all happened?’.
‘I think something I’ve learned out of this is that the rules and the pub test are different tests,’ Wells said.
‘Whilst you might do your best to discharge your duties within the rules, there’s a whole separate question around the pub test.’
Communication Minister Anika Wells (above) was questioned about her use of taxpayer funds for travel on The Daily Aus podcast on Thursday
FitzSimons was quick to call out Wells’ wording, saying: ‘The rules were also broken. It wasn’t just the pub test.’
Wells said: ‘Well the rules – I was cleared of any misconduct.’
FitzSimons shot back: ‘When you say you were cleared of any misconduct, there was a breach of rules.’
Wells admitted ‘there were four mistakes’ and attempted to explain one of the situations for context.
‘I stayed in Canberra and flew my family down a day earlier because I thought that would save the fare of me flying to Brisbane and back,’ she said.
‘Flying my family a day earlier meant that it sat outside the rules so I had to repay that trip.
‘That’s what I mean, trying to get a better understanding of what those rules are and having more people in my office understand what those rules are.’
Dozens of comments under the clip called for Wells to face harsher consequences for the misuse of taxpayer funds.
Billi FitzSimons (above), daughter of journalists Lisa Wilkinson and Peter FitzSimons, called out Wells for saying she’d failed the ‘pub test’, telling the MP: ‘The rules were also broken’
Wells (above) was order to pay the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority $10,116.11 after an audit found she’d wrongly used taxpayer funds on travel
FitzSimmons previously grilled Jim Chalmers over the changes to Capital Gains Tax
‘She should have been removed as minister,’ one wrote.
‘She should be fired,’ another said.
‘Only repaid it because she got caught,’ another wrote.
‘By four mistakes, she means four contraventions of the rules that she got caught out on,’ another said.
However, other commenters were more focused on a comment Wells made earlier in the segment.
‘I gave all of my 243 ministerial trips to the independent regulator and they found in there four honest mistakes,’ Wells said in the clip.
Commenters were shocked the four repaid trips alone cost more than $8,000.
‘Repaid four trips, cost $10,000. What have the other 242 trips cost us?’ one wrote, referencing the total Wells was ordered to repay.
‘Four ‘mistakes’ totalling $10,000? Okay,’ another said.
The Daily Mail has contacted Wells’ office for comment.
– READ MORE: Sarah Henderson calls on PM to stand Anika Wells down over taxpayer-funded Adelaide birthday trip
– READ MORE: Jim Chalmers flounders in interview as he’s grilled on changes to Capital Gains Tax
